March 2010 – denominationalism
This is the first month of Kingdom Life Fellowship, a church that has evolved out of Celebration Center and is not an official SDA Church. We have experienced a powerful beginning through the outpouring of the Holy Spirit and are praying through how we can continue to be a blessing to Adventism even if we are not officially under its covering or yoke. This of course raises the whole question of denominationalism, and its role in what God is doing today. If you have comments on this subject we would love to hear from you.
A voice from the past – 30 years ago now. Glen passed along some public information. I want to commend you for following the Spirit of God rather than the spirit of man or denominationalism. I truly believe your heart is right with your desire to “bless Adventism” but beware of a divided heart. Of course no one benefits from being bitter or even inappropreitly confrontational, but trying to keep your feet in both streams is like straddling a boat and the dock as you are pulling away. The result is you just get wet. God is doing a new thing with you. Run with Him.
As you are exploring the healing ministry of the Spirit, take a look at this video – it will blow your mind and increase your faith 10 fold.
http://vodpod.com/watch/2707569-david-hogan-part-2-a-missionary-raising-the-dead-and-healing-the-sick-#
Bless you and praying for you,
Johnny Z
Hey John,
Great to hear from you. I have been a fan of Hogan for some time. I started attending Wimber’s Vineyard in 1985 and have been on a quite a ride with the Spirit ever since. Now He is bringing some new waves, so I am getting ready to mount up on new eagle’s wings. How is your church going? Give me an update. God bless, sd
Steve,
We are doing well here in downtown Sac. What’s the status on your folks?
Our Kingdom Life Fellowship just separated from Celebration Center this month. Our whole pastoral staff left with the new church plant (4 of us) and we added a fifth inter-denominational pastor after the move. I couldn’t ask for a better staff or a more unified Spirit-filled body of believers. We are having fun!
Johnny Z,
Can I get your email address? I want to correspond a bit in a less public domain. Mine is:
sdailycc@gmail.com
Hi Steve
I just read a little about Kingdom Life Fellowship. What is happening? Is Celebration Centre still going? Is it still SDA?
Regarding denominationalism, I would like to find out if any work has been done on Ellen White working with other denominations – we know she read a lot of non-Adventist books, but did she have regular contact with non-Adventist Christians? Did she ever attend non-Adventist services? I think what she did is often more revealing than what she said!
Here in Ipswich in the UK a number of SDA members are now also attending Sunday churches where they are discovering a more powerful experience of the Holy Spirit. Naturally this is also causing some confusion for the more traditional members, but I am sure God will make a way.
May God continue to bless you
Hi John,
Good to hear from you. Kingdom Life Fellowswhip is a church plant out of Celebration Center. We have five pastors on staff and I am blessed to be the senior pastor. We have a very vibrant Spirit-filled congregation, most of whom came from CC. We are not an official SDA Church, but the great majority of the congregation would consider themselves to be in harmony with our Kingdom Adventism (google) web site (see 70 pages of articles). We see ourselves as an interdenominational body that has as one of its missions, to help bring spiritual renewal to Adventism. We are in the process of linking with other kingdom Sabbatarian groups around the globe, if you are good with that give me your web site and we will link to it in the near future.
If it is OK with you I would also like to link your email to our KA blog on denominationalism
because I think others might have an interest in your question about EGW.
If you read the Prophetic Rift volumes you know that EGW came out of the Shouting Methodist movement and kept abreast of what was happening in other churches outside Adventism. She was quite active in the Women’s Christian Temperance Movement. This movement did involve Christians from all denominations and would have allowed her to avoid the extreme isolation that so many SDAs experience. As to whether she actually attended Sunday Churches, there seems to be little record of such behavior, which is not surprising given her extreme criticisms of Sunday churches, and the potential repercussions she may have experienced had she been seen attending them.
I am glad to hear that many of the UK Adventists are broadening their spiritual horizens. We are hoping to have a Kingdom Adventist Conference later this year and would love to have some attend from the UK. God bless, sd
Hi Steve,
I thought I might share a few thoughts on denominationalism. But first I should share a little on my background. I attended CC with my wife for several months whilst dong an internship at the Anaheim Vineyard back in 1999. Although I’m Australian, I finished theology at an SDA seminary in Poland. In the midst of personal witness I was disturbed by the lack of power to do what Jesus did in the Book. We ran into folk suffering terminal illnesses and those having demonic visitations etc and we couldn’t help them. That set me on my journey to seek heaven (at 5am every morning in a nearby forest on my knees back in the early 1990′s). I dedicated myself to learning to recognize the voice of God and asked Jesus to disciple me just like He did the 12. Little was I aware of the consequences of my pursuit. (Skepticism, rejection, ridicule, rumors etc). It’s been worth it regardless. God has shown up and done only what He can do through us. So, in a nut shell, I am committed as ever to preaching the Kingdom, healing the sick, raising the dead, cleansing lepers and casting out demons (Mt 10:7-8). This is the legacy of Jesus and it’s hard to imagine hanging out with Jesus and not participating in His ministry. I’d be happy to share Holy Ghost stories but this may not be the time or place.
While I had been praying for folk for some time I come across a book by John Wimber (power healing) as I was trying to learn more. I read that they train at their church so dropped in to see how they go about it on our way back to Australia. Whilst attending CC, I was asked to speak one Friday night by Pastor Dan and do some ministry one Friday night. It was pretty fun. P. Dan asked if we would consider staying (with the idea of a church plant from CC) but we were convinced we should head back to Oz to do some church planting. Well, that never happened although I did work as a youth pastor for a year. I don’t wish to blame anyone but here are a few thoughts on denominationalism:
In denominationalism, people gather around doctrines, ideas that everyone agree on (side note: there is nothing wrong with good doctrine).
In the Kingdom, people gather around fathers (1 Cor 4:15).
In denominationalism, I have to reject those that I don’t agree with.
In the Kingdom, I can live happily with those with other experiences, ideas and concepts because we are family (I obviously think we need some core beliefs).
In denominationalism, discipline is based on guidelines from a manual.
In the Kingdom, discipline comes in the context of loving, healthy relationships to restore and empower.
In denominationalism, people strive for authority to rule over men.
In the Kingdom, believers have authority over all the power of the enemy (Lk 10:19) to serve men.
Denominationalism breeds conformity.
The Kingdom breeds freedom.
Denominationalism breeds doctrinal unity.
The Kingdom breeds unity of the Spirit (Eph 4:3).
Denominationalism is based on earthly power.
The kingdom is based on Spirit power.
Denominationalism confines creativity.
The kingdom releases creativity (arts, music, miracles etc).
Hope all is well with this new church plant and what you guys are doing.
Blessings mb
Hey Matt
Thank you for sharing your insights, they are powerful and I agree with them. I’m sure we have a lot in common. I started attending Wimber’s Vineyard in 1985 and became a true kingdom believer under his ministry. I would love to hear more about what you are doing now. God bless, sd
Hi Steve,
We moved back to Poland 3 yrs ago to spend time with my wife’s family and do ministry. We tried formally within the church (I had interviews with various conference presidents here but never got picked up. I do understand it is because our of pursuit of Kingdom and the ministry of Jesus.)
We bought an apartment and have been renovating it whilst doing informal ministry. We run a home group and continue to witness to friends and people we meet. That involves praying for folk on the street (or where ever we are) and sharing the Gospel of the Kingdom.
I have been invited to to speak at some local churches and do ministry (although this is very limited as most people/pastors are scared to death of supernatural ministry).
I have been involved with a group (grown children of well known church leaders) that started a group called “Soteria” that organizes training events and creative evangelistic programs near Warsaw. Because it is not run by the church they have been slandered pretty heavily. They have invited me to speak and help train folk especially in the areas of intimacy with God, biblical meditation, hearing God’s voice, prayer for the sick, living out our true identity in Christ and demonstrating the Kingdom of God in personal witness.
We don’t just teach theory, we do practical workshops where people learn to recognise God’s voice and then minister to people. Many people get healed physically, set free of emotional or mental torment, freed from sexual bondages, have relationships restored, etc. Some women were bold enough to bring their unbelieving husbands to the weekend training retreats. Some were heavily affected by the atmosphere. [One guy (in his 50's) turned to the Lord after God demonstrated His love and power by healing his elbow that was seriously injured many years ago!] They then head back to their cities and put into practice what they learnt.
The local church has not responded very well to us and this activity. So we have sat “outside the camp”. It has given me time to think through why as a church we believe in the the third person of the God-head but reject much of His work today.
Let me share a short story of a physics teacher doing some personal witnessing after some basic training:
Kamila was with a group doing some practical outreach in a park in the summer (a two day event). Some were painting faces for kids, others serving cool drinks while a band was worshiping God. One women was checking it all out and asked Kamila some questions. As they got chatting, she found out the lady had a problem with her leg and was in constant pain. Kamila offered her prayer and the lady accepted. She prayed for her right there in the park all the time thinking (Lord, people are looking at me like I’m from another planet). She finished off and asked the Lady how she was doing. The lady said, no major change. The women went on her way. The next day, the women came back to find kamila. She was overflowing with joy. She said the pain left her leg on the way home and has not returned. She also said she now has full mobility! Kamila tried to hide her amazement and after getting her senses together talked to her about God and shared the Gospel.
This is some of the fruit of what happens when the believers are given permission to believe God for the impossible and that they get to participate in what He is doing in the world today.
I do want to ask if you know Tom and Carolyn. We met them at CC and have fond memories. They invited us to their place for lunch several times and had a great time with them. I suspect they arranged for me to speak at the Friday night meeting at CC.
Also, I would be interested to hear how your church operates. Are you outside of the organisation? Do you have any connection with church leaders? I ask as I am unsure to our next steps. We plan to leave Poland but I don’t see much chance of working within the church frame.
ps. I would also like to be able to get my hands on your books (prophetic rift I and II). Is there anyway way to purchase them in ebook form?
Blessings
mb
Dear Matt,
Thanks for the powerful testimony. Yes, not only do I know Tom and Carolyn well, they are part of our pastoral staff. To answer your other questions, we are no longer an official Adventist Church, we consider ourselves a kingdom Adventist church, but have no official ties to the denomination. The Rift I and II are not out in ebook form at this time, but if you give me an address I can mail them to you. God bless, sd
Hi Steve,
I downloaded and started reading the Kingdom Adventism articles. Some really good stuff there. I noticed it was dedicated to Tom and Carolyn. Please send them our kindest regards. My address is:
Matt Britten
ul. Tabaki 28/3
58-560 Jelenia Gora
Poland
Let me know how to pay for this. (I can pay via Visa Card.)
Blessings
mb
Hi Matt
Sounds like some interesting stuff going on over there in Poland. Funny all these terms getting rehashed Kingdom reminds me of Jehovah Witnesses.
PM me I’m interested in hearing from you.
Your servant
Mike
Michael.Weston@calvarymater.org.au
Dear Mike,
Thanks for checking the website. It is a pity that JWs have somewhat soiled the word kingdom, but Jesus used it as his major theme long before them,and if it was good enough for Him it should be good enough for his followers. God bless, sd
Pastor Steve,
Are you preaching at KLF this weekend?
Dear Bell,
Sorry, I won’t be, I’ll be in Denver for my daughter’s ordination.
Lindsay will be ordained on August 20.
Dear Pastor Steve,
How was your trip and the church in Denver?
Dear Ted,
Our trip to Denver was great. I really enjoyed preaching at my daughter’s church, which has changed its name from Lone Tree Community Church to Tree of Life Church. They are doing very well and growing in the Spirit. I also was thrilled to participate in her special ordination service, which was the most beautiful and elaborate ordination service I have ever seen. Their church has been embraced by the Bridgeway Church in Denver which was birthed by the Vineyard Movement and has become a large congregation . Peter Young is the senior pastor and their staff participated in the ordination as well. It was a blessing to be there.
Dear Ted, Tim, Doria and Lin,
Sorry for my extended absence from the site. I have been in the process of preparing my book manuscripts to go on Kindle. The first one, Dates of Destiny, has just been published, more than ten others are soon to follow. then I will try to do a better job of keeping up with this site. thanks for your patience, sd
Dear Pastor Steve,
I’ve been reading your Dates of Destiny book on Kindle each day and really enjoying it. Keep up the good work.
Thanks Tim,
When I can find the time, I am doing my best to get all my books formatted over to Kindle. Some take much more time than others, but I hope to have them all up in the next month.
Dear Pastor Steve,
When will you be back on the blog to answer questions?
Dear Ted,
Sorry for the long delay, I finally finished putting all my current books on Kindle, so I will attempt to keep up with this website again. God bless, sd